SEVEN AUSTRALIAN POETS
Lisa Bellear interviewed by John Kinsella
[Above] Photo of Lisa Bellear by Jenni Mitchell, 1999.
JK: Do you see "the land" and language as being inseparable?
LB: My immediate answer is yes, however it is important not to view language solely from a Western Eurocentric position, particularly when dealing with a colonised country like Australia. The invaders chose not to see "language" "symbols" "culture/s" "lores/laws" of Indigenous Australian's. As a result this lack of seeing, acknowledging led to the deliberate destruction of hundreds of Indigenous languages, tribes, clans.
As a poet/writer/photographer who identifies as Indigenous, I must express my frustration at being forced to communicate in the coloniser's language: English. A further complication is how often our identity as Indigenous people is devalued by some colonisers, academics, researchers, on the basis that we write, speak, express oursleves in this imposed language. This is why context is vital.
JK: In fighting against a continuing invasion of physical, cultural, and social space, do you see the political agenda as having primacy over the "individual" creative voice? Is poetry about a collective identity for you?
LB: Good question, one that I feel very strongly. In my naivete, I thought of poets (in general), well if they write sweet words on love, then in their personal life, they are free of racism, sexism, ageism, classism. I learnt the hard way. As with some Indigenous writers/poets, they may write the words, but within their hearts, minds, spirits, they lack integrity. They ascribe to the individualistic, nihilist view, that is like writing from an outsider's point of view. And yet these are supposedly Indigenous writers, who are supposedly concerned with social justice, if not for all the world, at least First Nation's Peoples.
Once I learnt to be less naive, well I still maintain my stances on Land Rights, Sovereignty. As well I am prepared to raise issues such as Black on Black Violence. And of course I believe in order to survive especially when the world can seem overwhelming - humour, laughter is vital. I know that because I am political - if I wasn't then quite a large number of my very big extended family of both Indigenous and non-Indigenus friends, family would take me aside. I joke that probably the only compromise I make is if I am in a room with a lot of Aunties & Uncles, Olders/Elders and young folk, I'll try not to swear.
But I do believe all creative people, artists, must look at society and ask questions. However reality is many don't and if you want the rewards of regular paid employment, first or business class travel throughout Australia, the world, then look the part, say a few signifying hip, cool, political words, be sexist, ageist, and the rest, but like I said, I'm not like that, the people I admire are not like that, we are grass roots artists who ain't gonna sit back and be hypocritical - hey John that's my tough talking for now!
JK: You are conscious of failings within any power structures. Would you comment on this observation?
LB: Well of course, but life goes on. In the past for example I have written to the Melbin (Melbourne) Writers' Festival Committee. I have expressed concerns, for example, why do "they" refuse to conduct a welcome to country ceremony? That is, invite representatives from the Kulin Nations to open and welcome the writers, guests, friends & general community to Aboriginal Land? Why is there resistance to this? Why is there resistance to displaying both Indigenous Flags at the Writers' Festival? Another example of the racism, ignorance/arrogance (I give up). How is a non-Aboriginal personal allowed (without question) to chair any panel session they want, desire, but are Indigenous Australian's afforded the same, similar opportunites - I think not, pathetic. Anita Heiss (Wurradjerri/Austrian-Australian), poet/writer/academic and Australian Society of Authors Indigenous portfolio rep, has also raised these concerns with writers' festivals throughout Australia. I now say if "they" are not responding then this highlights the intrenched racism, shame on this country and especially the writers' festivals, I feel embarrased even discussing this with you, John.
JK: Issues of gender are examined thematically in your work - do you see any?
LB: Who knows? I usually say if you want to identify as Indigenous and be successful ie; "white people or Indigenous "gate keepers" will reward you handsomely if you put down Aboriginal women or stereotype (without political, social, cultural context) Aboriginal men as no hopers, drunks and rapists. Then you will be rewarded. As I have stated earlier, I find this very offensive and of course there will always be an Indigenous man or Indigenous woman who will write without any conscience or consideration of Indigenous communities, peoples and our sufferings. To those people: our ancestors watch, our grassroots activists watch, you one day will be made to be accountable, just as we demand that the colonisers' role in our oppression has to be addressed and dismantled. Pitfalls in this? You question all hierarchies - but are some more relevant than others? Get back.
JK: How influenced are you by song?
LB: Personally I like song/songs, all forms. I wish I could write songs, but the melodies, sounds can evoke meaning, even without words. Early colonisers often remarked at the poetic, song like sounds of various Aboriginal languages, I believe that observation is still true for today, however the stories may be different, there will also remain similiar concerns: Land Rights, Sovereignty, love, heartache, survival.
JK: What do you think of Mudrooroo's observations regarding Lionel Fogarty's?
LB: Do I have to answer that? Short opinion, well since Mudrooroo happens to like brother Lionel's work (and possibly likes Lionel), then he is careful not to offer any comments that offend, either the writer or the reader.
JK: "Guerilla" poetry? Should language be used as a weapon, or at least as method of disarming the aggressor?
LB: Look we are talking about semantics, however while I personally delight in the term 'guerilla poetry', no doubt there are some members of the academy or general public that would use this term, as a means to dismiss the words, thoughts and sentiments of the author. I say and how convenient.
JK: Have you been influenced by the work of Tracey Moffatt?
LB: Personally I love sista Tracey Moffat. She reminds me of Elizabeth Taylor.I am proud to say we are friends, and I look forward to being able to do a reading/performance piece in New York with Tracey's art work adorning the walls. Plus I would love Tracey to be there in person. I guess I am inspired by Tracey's attitude to life. Yes I love her and her work, and I do know that she seems to like some of my poems, that's real sweet, plus it means a great deal to me. John - hard one b/c Tracey is our friend (Destiny Deacon - my housemate in Brunswick)
JK: Is there much of a conflict between "urban" and "land-based" poetry/literature in indigenous writing in Australia?
LB: I am assuming you mean urban-rural-traditonal? The conflict I believe can arise through internalised colonisation or self-hatred. As a result some Indigenous people could be derogatory towards urban-based Aboriginal people and vice versa. I wouldn't want to dwell too much on this, but I certainly know within the art world, non-Aboriginal art dealers and art gallery owners have a vested economic interest in promoting this "divide". Another issue I feel strongly about ...
JK: Are there other Indigenous poets and poetries in other parts of the world that specifically interest you? Is there room for a "united" struggle"?
LB: Of course!
JK: Are European verse forms limiting? Do you write against these?
LB: Yes and no. Of course given that I am forced to communicate in a bastardised form of a European language, yes I sometimes find it limiting and frustrating. However I do try to appreciate the sentiments as opposed to being critical just for the sake of what's expected. I like Aboriginal-English, plus when I travel I like to learn other Indigenous expressions and styles from throughout the world.
JK: What are you working on at the moment?
LB: Do you want the honest, tell-the-whole-of-the-world answer or the list which least stresses me out? You see John, I am a little bit behind in several projects. As a consequence sometimes I have to slip into town and keep a low profile. Here goes:
* Writing 75,000 word thesis: Contemporary Indigenous issues through radio and photographic texts. La Trobe University (English). Silly me read the form wrong, I was bragging due Feburary 26 2004 (now how did I figure that) and to my horror I rechecked the form and it's due in one and a half years;
* shooting video footage of the the Aboriginal Tent Embassy and associated actions, marches, speeches, protests which coincide with the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games. I am also interviewing Indigneous and non-Indigenous people and taking photographs. Fortunately I have a good friend Moo Baulch who lives in Sydney, I am crashing with her. As well Moo is helping with the interviews too;
* always thinking poetry, however recently wrote thirty poems over June/July for a photographic & text exhibition 2000 & NoThink (aka: unfinished business). This was a group exhibition which focused on Indigenous Identity.
I exhibited 32 photographs, each image had a person holding a telephone. I had one poem which accompanied each image. This is an ongoing project, so each time I photograph someone with a phone, I have to write a poem, that's a bit ambitious, but sometimes I enjoy an idea and become a tad obsessive. The feedback was pretty cool, hey I even had an image of Professor
Chris Wallace-Crabbe;
* Normally write journal everyday, however it was too bulky to bring to Sydney, instead I have to try and find some time and write field notes;
* A 750 word children's story (eeek)
We'll leave it at that.
JK: What do you think of the creation of an "Australian" canon of writing? The attempt to "add" an indigenous category to this white/imperialist construct?
LB: Oh John, how about in spite of how I've always said the 'mother' country is too cold, invite me over and I could go on and on, well actually I have written more than 20,000 words on that issue, and I got fed up and my friends say why bother explaining about how the "Australian" Canon excludes Indigenous Australians? And who wants to be a part of it anyway and I'm a fool to waste my time and energy trying - and it goes on and on, now I'll try and be brief.
According to the Australian Literary Canon there are only five Indigenous Australian Poets. And my response is: and two of the five are non-Aboriginal. Also I laugh in their bigoted faces and am thankful that there are some, albeit a minority, of "concerned" "interested" Australian Poets who want to appreciate the depth and breadth, cultural diversity of Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander poetry-song from throughout Australia. I say the same to the canon that has contributed for more than two centuries of writing Indigenous Australians into the literary landscape, I say your words of exclusion, denial, kill just has hard as real bullets.
JK: Are there any poets writing at the moment that particularly interest you?
LB: Where do I begin ... I love poetry, poets, & promoting poetry. Anita Heiss, Kerry Reed-Gilbert, Graeme Dixon, John Harding, Melissa Brickell, Jenny Harrison, Lauren Williams, Pio, and I enjoy reading poetry from First Nations, People of Colour and poets like Coral Hull and Professor Chris Wallace-Crabbe, and one day I would really like to meet Mr Les Murray, I wrote about him in my first MA (Women's Studies) (MELB). I praised him for his contribution in promoting poetry-song which is actually authored by Indigenous Australians. There's a few other points I'd like to raise, but I would be respectful.
JK: What do animals signifiy in youR poetry as opposed to "real life": or is this a false division?
LB: Another vexed question. My view is that the divIsion is false, however that may not always be the case or so clear. In many cultures, people are animals, animals are people. In some cultures where a group identifies an animal or several animals as their totem, these spirits, living beings are not to be killed or eaten. I like this view because it's also about respect and knowing your place.
JK: Have you worked on any collaborative projects?
LB: Yes. Right now I am working on a federation project which involves composers. Also I have been asked to write several pieces of poetry-spoken word (I never really know the precise difference - do you John?) This is for the Melbourne festival May 27 2000. Both projects involve acknowledging the traditional custodians of Melbourne Town, the Kulin Nations. So this involves giving me yet another excuse to meet and mingle and take photographs, and most importantly I am being respectful. Issues to be raised include: Traditional Welcome (to be done by members of the Kulin Nation), Land Rights, Sovereignty, misunderstandings, reconcilation, the future.
JK: Is performance a significant part of your writing project?
LB: Yes - but that's me. I can reach people through humour, poetry, stories. However I also know reality - Australia is a racist country, so I do what I can and try to reach the widest possible audience as well as keep my feet firmly on the grassroots level and occasionally I do show some humility.
About the Poet Lisa Bellear
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Lisa Marie Bellear was born in Melbourne. Actively involved in Indigenous affairs throughout the country Lisa is passionate about social justice and simply looking after each other. She has been a volunteer broadcaster on 3CR community radio for 11 years on the Not Another Koori Show. Lisa's poetry has been published in many journals and anthologies. She was been nominated for the 1995 Human Rights Award for Poetry for her poem "Native Title Now". The poem is the title of an exhibition of Aboriginal art currently touring Australia. Lisa Bellear has read at literary festivals, pubs and conferences in Australia and in the USA. For the two years she has sat on the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Literature Panel of the Australia Council as well as sitting on the selection committee of the RAKA (Ruth Adney Koori) Award. Lisa completed her Master of Arts degree at the University of Queensland and is doing her PhD (English) at La Trobe University - contemporary indigenous issues through radio and photographic text. |
[Above] Photo of Lisa Bellear by Jenni Mitchell, 1999.
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Exit I
Thylazine No.4 (September, 2001) |
